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Iraq

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I wonder if Andrew will question Gen Sir Mike Jackson tonight on the role of private contract firms now operating in Iraq and Afghanistan. I regard these people as nothing other than paid mercenaries.

Is it right that a former head of the British army should be a paid director of these firms. I wonder if Andrew will also ask the General why he sought his own legal advice before accepting the job of heading our army in Iraq. What does he think of the actions of Blackwater in Falujah, which necessitated a very strong reaction from the American official forces. Does the General think that sometimes it is right for soldiers to refuse orders, because if he didn't then why did he seek his own legal advice, as is confirmed in his own memoirs. Should he be able to make money of the war? What does he think about freedom of speech, and can he justify the use of court injunctions to prevent former soldiers speaking in public. Just a few of my thoughts on the war, the precedings to the war, and the subsequent occupation, extra-ordinary rendition and enhanced inetrrogation techniques. 

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Iraq Inquiry

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I would like to confirm that my petition on the Number 10 site now has 29 signatures. This is not about reconstruction as Brown would like it to be but the Terms of Reference for the inquiry must specifically include allegations about extra-ordinary rendition, and enhanced interrogation techniques, which to me is a form of torture. That is what it is about as much as anything else.

As for anybody who thinks that events in Iran are an affront to democracy should look in the mirror and remember Dr David Kelly, Mr de Menezes, Blair Peach, and restrictions on freedom of speech by the use of High Court Injunctions, and the threats of withdrawal of compensation to British soldiers who have been injured, and to the families of soldiers killed in action. Furthermore, look into the judges comments in the case of Col. Mendonca, also the comments by soldiers in respect of the young man who died in Iraq as a result of heat exhaustion.

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More about Women

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I had to smile when I read your comments. Maybe others have also noticed that Andrew always seems to have a woman as his side-kick. Is he unable to accpet another man beside him, I may be wrong but he always seems to be assisted by women, but I don't think that I am. I must say however, that Andrew's women always seem to very, very attractive, both physically and intellectually. I hope that this is not seen in a negative light but is seen as a statement of transparency, honesty, and truth. Which is what I think we are demanding of those who represent us in parliament.

One final thing I hope that others have noticed that Cameron has picked up on one of my themes, that is when questioning Brown about the cabinet meeting he referred to Darling, and Cooper, just how rude can you get! Maybe the new speaker ought to have a quiet word, I mean these are honouarble people, not like us mere mortals. There is just not enough capacity in westminster, better send for reinforcements from America, oops sorry that is Afghanistan.
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Women at Mission Control

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a slight change of subject but it does relate to parliament and the presence of women in parliament. I am going to make a highly contentious comment but has nobody seen the link between the allowing women the vote and the decline and fall of the British Empire.

I have been watching the BBC programmes on the NASA programme to send man to the moon. Has nobody else noticed the complete lack of women at Mission Control, it was just so full of men, men who smoked, men who had short hair, men wearing white shirts and ties. The only time we saw any women was the faces in the crowds, and the wives waiting by the TV for news of their husbands. To solve the problems of the planet let's put men back in control, let's reduce the number of MPs but let us also reduce the number of those eligible to vote.

Permalink 1 comment (latest comment by Perry Mc Daid, Thursday, 25 June 2009, 08:45)
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We do bad things to bad people?

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rather than have a debate on the Iraq Inquiry maybe parliament would like to have a proper debate on what exactly is happening in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

The extra American troops now going in to our zone show the total abject failure of our presence in Afghanistan. We went in with the Americans after 9/11, we then took our eye off the ball because of Iraq. Now we are paying the price in terms of British soldiers injured and killed. Furthermore, we just cannot hold what we take, we are reinforcing defeat, something any military historian will tell you is just so not the right policy.

There must be a withdrawal policy from Afghanistan, there is absolutely no further point in our being there. Also, too many civilians are being killed, we are using drones because the Air Force show more courage by not bombing sites where there is the danger of killing innocent women and children. The war is being fought like a video game.

When Harry went to Afghanistan, in secret, he let the cat out of the bag. He was shown at a computer screen calling up an air strike which resulted in deaths of 'Talibhan' and the worst thing of all was his cap logo 'we do bad things to bad people' which in the light of allegations on the BBC of mistreatment, by the Americans, of detainees says it all. I suppose that by bombing people to death it prevents them from being detained and then ill treated!

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Wimbledon

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You are of course absolutely correct in your analysis of what is happening in Pakistan. What do you think has happened to the extra money we, I mean British and American, taxpayers have given to Pakistan. It has gone to refugee releif and to the pay of the army. It is like employing mercenaries, no different whatsoever, must not get our hands dirty must we.

As for John Bercow, I have no problem whatsoever in pointing out that he is the first ever member of the Jewish faith to be speaker, this I think indicates exactly how inclusive we are in this country. The same with the members of other faiths to have their place in both the commons and lords.

However, there is a problem and I think that Wimbledon exemplifies it perfectly. The cover over centre court is meant to keep out the rain, it would apparently also have another purpose in that it can, and was, be used as a giant sun shade. It was much too hot on the court yesterday and the 'nobs' sorry, those in the royal box, got much too hot, so the contraption was partially closed to save them from too much sun. Please don't tell me that the All England club have built the most expensive sun shade on the planet, only hope that they did not borrow money from RBS to pay for it.

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Straw and under spend

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thought that the Straw interview on the Today programme was absolutely illuminating. Apparently the head of the Probation Service in London was going to be sacked, or fired, according to Straw. Instead he was 'allowed' to resign. Now then let's have the details of the compensation package given to the former head of the Probation Service in London, just like somehow we found out about the pension package for Goodwin.

There is a problem which Straw identified. That is carry-forward. Government spending is out of control. We are told that the government is bringing forward expenditure for next financial year to this year, so it won't be there next year. But, if I give you money this year but then ask you to underspend, then you can carry forward the money for this year to next year. The only trouble is that it is highly likely that the person making the promise will not be in power next year, they will out of power, saying to the next government that there will be cuts under the new government, we would never have made cuts, we will not make cuts. You are for the few, we are for the many.

I think that the first test for the new Speaker will be when Cameron has the guts to actually stand up and call Brown a liar. Just like Blair lied, now Brown is doing nothing other than lying! Sorry, that would be unparliamentary language and would end up in the courts, so let me put it another way, they are both being economical with the truth.

Finally, I can't fail but have a laugh over Blair and his expenses not being available. We have had Fred the Shred, there is not the same with Blair the Shred, let's go back to Blair the Liar shall we. Maybe see you in the High Court. The trouble is there is going to be so little evidence left, either that or it will be redacted.

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Public Inquiry into Iraq

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may I thank you and your moderators over the words you have permitted me to place on your blog in respect of the Iraq Inquiry. I will listen with great interest to the debate in the House of Lords this afternoon, especially to the words of Lord Butler who will be speaking. The Inquiry must be held as much as possible in the public domain. It should also be shown in full on the internet. There is absolutely no reason why it should not be broadcast live, with no time delay. This inquiry in public is what the public should have, it is what the families and friends of the dead and injured deserve, but actually it is what the people of Iraq should have, the Inquiry must be held in public, to do otherwise would surely indicate that there are some who want to save their reputations, rather than try to reach some sort of closure on this highly contentious issue, and that there are some who could not give evidence under oath because I do not think that I am the only person who would think that if not given under oath then they, as has been said by an infamous young lady, 'they would say that, wouldn't they?'. People should also be prosecuted if they are called that they refuse for a legitimate reason to give evidence.

If soldiers are to kill and be killed, and to follow orders, then the whole of society needs to know that the period leading up to the war, the war itself, and the subsequent occupation (not reconstruction) were conducted in full accord with national and international law. There must be no whitewash, some people may not like it but the truth has to come out. This is also about extra-ordinary rendition, it is about enhanced interrogation techniques, and the unpublished Memoranda of Understanding signed with Iraq. We allegedly detained people and handed them over to third parties where allegedly totally unacceptable actions were taken against them. The Inquiry should also investigate private contractors being employed to take actions which allegedly would not be permitted in a legal under military law.

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It's a Free Country, isn't it?

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just to say that I was listening to Milliband on the interview circuit this evening and he was talking about the British Ambassador being called in and comments being made to the effect I think that the British government should control the BBC. The Foreign Secretary then said that Iran had to understand that the government does not control the BBC. I think that this needs some sort of clarification.

I would ask Milliband about Prince Harry who served in Afghanistan and whose presence in the war was kept secret, and the BBC went along with it. I would ask the BBC if they know that a High Court judge has placed an injunction on my son preventing him from speaking in public, and the free BBC goes along with this restriction on free speech. I would say that although you give us a tremendous amount of leeway, we are still moderated, so much for free speech. Would anybody say that the BBC coverage, with embedded journalists in Iraq was free and fair, and showed all the activities, without restrictions.

As for elections of Presidents, or even Prime Ministers, of course Britain has an elected PM, doesn't it. I mean England does not even have it's own Parliament, so much for democracy. no, I'm afraid that sometimes the foreigners are quite right, we do not live in a free and fair country, national security of course, and D-Notices.

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World recession One

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surely everybody must realise by now that Keynes was a theorist, there is absolutely no proof for his theory. All economists are theorists, they are not scientists, although they would like us to think that they are.

This recession will be different, the Great Depression was as much a state of mind as anything else. There have been so many Great Depressions, a bit like World Wars, World War One was not World War One until World War Two, before that it was the Great War. By the way it should be noted that it should not be commemmorated at 11 O'clock on the Eleventh November, it was ended at 11 O'clock in France, it was not 11 O'clock in England. It could be said that we are in the first World Depression, or the First Global Recession, history is being written, it was not 9/11 that has done for the economies, it was 9/15, and that will be looked at in a new light by the historians.

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We will soon be free

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what I think we have to do is to look out for people who simply assert something with little or no evidence. All the people coming out in support of Brown are simply making assertions, there is no actual substance to their argument. Our eyes have been opened by the revelations in the media about MPs, and government ministers and former ministers.

We have all been bound by ropes of lies and half truths. Now we are beginning to see that ropes that bound us are nothing but sand, they can be blown away, we will soon be free.

Permalink 1 comment (latest comment by Perry Mc Daid, Friday, 5 June 2009, 18:18)
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Brown is toast

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when on the Andrew Marr Show Gordon Brown more or less said to the Palace 'tell you what, get on the phone and I'll get the Queen on to the D-Day celebrations' and it was that moment that Brown was done for. It was his arrogance to presume that he was Head of State, that the Queen was somebody who had to ask, I could not personally believe it.

Brown is now having to juggle getting ready for a photo opportunity and trying to save his political skin. He is not up to it, coups always take place when the leader is away.

Blair was ousted after saying that he would serve a full term. Brown took over without an election, he has always lacked any legitimacy, as you sow so shall you reap, and revenge is something best served cold, I think that the game is up.

Let us hear that David Milliband is still foreign secretary after the reshuffle, he has come out supporting the PM. Can we take it that Lord Mandelson will not be the foreign secretary after the reshuffle. If Brown moves Milliband then it is over, Milliband is playing a very good hand. This is not a tragedy, it is is not Shakespearian, it is a farce, a tragic Whitehall farce.

Brown is finished, and as for Jack Straw and the blunders which have led to the horrific murder of the two young Frenchmen. Any decent PM would not let Straw resign, he would sack him, only he can't, for obvious reasons.

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Brown and Boyle

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maybe Andrew Marr could bring in some enetrtainment by saying that Susan Boyle was the favourite to win Britain's Got Talent, and guess what she didn't win, but we don't know the votes.

Now maybe Brown could call a snap election, whilst everybody is on holiday of course, July/August would be a good time. Then he could go on a reality TV show and announce that against all the views of the pundits labour has won the election. Unfortunately the voting slips are being analysed and this may take up to four maybe even five years before all the votes can be authenticated.

In the meantime of course there will be recriminations, the Tories have to sack Cameron, the liberals will of course have to join the government in the cause of national unity, Vince Cable for example, with maybe some others helping in foreign affairs. There is one drawback of course, no beards allowed in the House of Commons and definitely no sandals.

In the meantime Brown goes on an extended world trip where he actually gets elected as the new leader of the free world, and conferring honours on deserving causes, like Teddy Kennedy who did so much for the sport of driving cars off short piers, or Sir Fred Goodwin, who according to the delightfully fragrant Harriet Harman was given his knighthood for services to the Princes Trust, you know not the 'we do bad things to bad people' one, but the one who does so much for everybody, like buying and selling woodland where substantial profits were made but because of the need for trees to build wooden ships to defeat Napoleon very little tax was paid on the profit.

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HMRC Investigating MPs

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it is not a question of MPs paying back any money to HMRC. It is about paying taxes that they should have paid in the first place. It is not that they received money from the taxman, they took money from the taxpayer, upon which tax should have been paid. It is incorrect to say that they are paying any money back to HMRC. This is about avoiding taxes, something which I find to be morally equivalent to theft.

When I was a child we had simple lessons on what was theft. If I traveled on a bus without tendering the fare then that is no different to the common thief, like the shoplifter is nothing other than a common thief, like to me somebody in an advantaged position overpaying themself to the detriment of others might be an entrepeneur to you but actually is theft.

Returning to MPs people have to understand about HMRC, their job is to ensure that people pay their taxes, that they do not pay too little or too much. Just like means tested benefits, you should not be getting something which you are not entitled to, that to is theft. The HMRC must investigate immediately, investigate all the tax returns of MPs, they must do what they do to others, they must get them to go back over their records for the last seven years, no shredding allowed, and treat the MPs just like any other common taxpayer, no exceptions. The accountants who filled in the tax returns must also be investigated, especially if any of them used to be employed by the tax authorities. The accountants signed off on the accounts of the banks, and the banks were bankrupt, it would appear that there just might have been some errors in the tax returns of MPs.

The MPs must be investigated, they cannot be investigated and do their jobs at the same time, there must be an October election, I can't imagine the Queens speech with the people now in 'her parliament'. God save the Queen, bring on the taxman
Permalink 1 comment (latest comment by Lyn Lovell, Wednesday, 27 May 2009, 10:46)
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Speech to unravel

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My wife and I were talking about Gordons speech and you must note that she was a social worker during her long career. What she noticed was that Gordon loves referring to the caring professions and carers. The problem is that he is Prime Minister, by the very nature of his position he actually should not care, because if he really did then some of his decisions would never be implemented, they make the situation worse rather than better.

As for why people do things he referred to various people including soldiers who do things 'because they want to make a difference'. What many people have to realise is that if you ask most soldiers why they want to be soldiers it is, 'to kill people', unpalatable but true. So, yes they make a difference in Iraq and Afghanistan, they kill people.


I was actually quite angry when he referred to the miraculous treatment, which he got from the NHS, which saved his sight. Just as the NHS saved my leg when I broke my femur at an early age and resulted in my legs actually being stronger.

Why was I angry, because we know that his own daughter died, the NHS could not save her. What we all have to get used to is the fact that sometimes people just die. That's what happens and it is not the case that before the NHS people did not have their sight saved. Also the doctors, the professionals would have been trained before the NHS came into being.

I want clarification as to what he means by the 'energy dictatorship of oil' and what will he do about it. Did the conference seriously applaud when he referred to 'clean coal' and 'new nuclear power stations'.

This 'great speech' will unravel so quickly.

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Life is Meaningless

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I think that you have been lucky to actually quit worsmile There are so many people who will not quit, they will be fired. They too will have plenty of time to study philosophy, their music, their friends, but importantly to enjoy their families. As I have said I'm going to get my Politics, Philosophy and Economics, (Hons) then sort my life out. It is a mess but as Christine, and others, has taught me so much through her postings I can and will change. I will miss her music links, even though I did not always understand them.

It is brilliant to see somebody being positive and some people may not think so but you have all been brilliant, in so many different ways. What exactly is this Philosophers Chat Conference. It may well be an appropriate place for discussion, or comment.

ps. Ben's injunction is still in place but we are appealing to the High Court because of Kant and his approach to contracts. You learn so much through the OU, you can even use it to argue with the MoD. Long live the OU.

In all seriousness, thank you all, it is a challenge. Good thing my Living Politics forum opens on the very day that this one closes. You couldn't make it up. I will miss you all, stay safe and enjoy the ride. I'm on my bike, and soon my travels will begin. Miss you all greatly. Life is meaningless, and we need to give it narrative to give it meaning, so we create narrative. Thank you all for enriching my narrative. Of which there has been plenty but more to come.

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Knee Jerk Reactions

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Further to my earlier posting I was think of the issue from a strictly philosophical perspective and so thought of this as well. Of course citizen Smith is right! but is she being consistent, what is her actual philosophy on the Harm Principle.

Now get your heads around this one if you can. Jacqui Smith has announced a crackdown on brothels, massage parlours, and kerb crawling. Now then, relate that to Mills Harm Principle. Should the government be passing, and enforcing these laws. Do they have a right so to do, where is the harm.

Now before you answer think! Will they also close down massage parlours which cater for women. Basically, will they stop women who pay for sex from men. In our 'modern' society women too have needs, should they not be satisfied or must they forever paddle their own canoe.

This is a touchy subject but I am seriously interested in this from a philosphical prespective, philosophy in action if you like. Should we take gender more into account when passing utilitarian laws.

Also, think about pre-nuptial agreements, does this also not turn us into, as Shakespeare would say 'pimps and whores'. Or should we just be content to be, as Alastair says, 'pissed off'. There needs to be more debate on these sorts of issues before we accept knee jerk reactions.


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Massage Parlours

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now get your heads around this one if you can. Jacqui Smith has announced a crackdown on brothels, massage parlours, and kerb crawling. Now then, relate that to Mills Harm Principle. Should the government be passing, and enforcing these laws. Do they have a right so to do, where is the harm.

Now before you answer think! Will they also close down massage parlours which cater for women. Basically, will they stop women who pay for sex from men. In our 'modern' society women too have needs, should they not be satisfied or must they forever paddle their own canoe.

This is a touchy subject but I am seriously interested in this from a philosphical prespective, philosophy in action if you like. Should we take gender more into account when passing utilitarian laws.

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Banking Behomeths

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Henry Ford developed mass production, huge factories producing huge numbers of cars.

His system was copied around the world, huge factories, loads of people, massive profits.

Well we are now in a post-Ford society. Big is no longer good, when the factories closed whole towns and city's were effected.

The banks became like Ford factories, the whole idea was ridiculous, they became so big that they were behomeths. They would not go under because of their size. Well that little exercise has proved to be a total abject failure. Banks must be split up, not merged.

The bank which employed me was a holding company with different entities operating as self contained units. If one part went under the other bits were safe. That is how the banks will be structured, with their own profit centres and service level agreements with other parts of the organisation. If one bit fails then it is containable.

The holding company will have access through their computer systems to the overall consolidated balance sheet, to see their overall  exposures. The whole world has changed.

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Dreadnoughts

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You are of course right, but many people refer to these events as a repeat of the lifeboat operation of the seventies, I think that they are wrong. During this period there was an Investment Trust which went under. The staff got to know in advance, so they stripped the offices bare, they even took the skirting boards  and the wall panels, as well as the dining table and chairs, they paid a fiver so as to be legal but these assets were worth thousands.

This is a Dreadnought economy, not the Titanic. Let me explain. Britain developed their Dreadnought fleet before WWI. They built the Titanic, unsinkable, only it sank. So, what happened, they realised that the Dreadnoughts were not unsinkable and that if they went down they would lose thousands of sailors. Much better to lose smaller ships, not so many lives lost.

So, they used the Dreadnoughts at Jutland and that was it. All the money was spent on unsinkable ships which sank, tens of thousands of sailors were lost and the Royal Navy was lost. Who would justify spending millons on ships which were lost the first battle they went into.

It is the same with the Banks, they were unsinkable they were Dreadnoughts. We are so finished. This will be known as the Dreadnought economy, the behomeths are gone.

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Titanic Britain

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does it seem so long ago that the Large Hadron Collider was switched on to resounding cheers and back-slapping congratulations.

Maybe we can be told by Gordon, the Great Leader, that the LHC has actually had to be switched off to warm up so they can fix a fault.

Billions spent, and what have we got a huge underground fridge. Come on Gordon when you make your speech congratulate our Olympic team, sorry Team GB, because it really was your grand idea to spend so much money on our athletes that they came fourth in the medals table. Sorry, it was that John Major, well that won't stop you praising your own success.

The wars, oh well done soldiers you won the war but we, the politicians have lost the battle for hearts and minds. How, well don't forget extra-ordinary rendition, and our mistreatment of prisoners, that really gets the people on your side.

Gordon Brown must not be allowed to get away with this, he has let down the country, he has let down the labour party, he was chancellor during the time that these bankers got away with it. As for we are looking at ways to solve these problems, no knee-jerk reactions. Well I'll tell you what will happen the bankers will run for the hills, they will take their money and run, and live the life of riley while we all suffer.

Well while Gordon and Alastair are being level-headed and looking at the issues, we are going under, big time. This is no lifeboat operation for the banks, this is the Titanic and the Captain needs to go down with his ship.

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Tax Rises

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The truth of the financial bale out by Britain and America will only become apparent over the next year or so. When your taxes start to rise, when public services are cut, when the far right and fascists continue their inexhoriable rise, when riots break out, then you will understand that what Darling and  Brown are doing. They are a disgrace, the banks must have been allowed to fail, they should have been hammered.

They have made the same mistakes that governments made in the late twenties, these stupid people have messed up big time. History is repeating itself, not exactly the same but this s just so awful what they are doing.

Taxes must rise, but personal tax allowances for the low paid must take them out of paying tax altogether. Income tax and national insurance must be merged. Social services must be formally merged with the NHS, there must never be any more sell off of the NHS assets, all hospital closures must be stopped. No more Post Office closures.

We are saddling our children and grandchildren with huge debts, this is so wrong. I want the individuals who have allowed the banking system to collapse to be prosecuted. They are guilty and there must be no hiding place.

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Hardin or Singer

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Nice one John. However, and however is so much better than but, but here is the problem.

If you can just go the the ECA for Liberty & Justice p.10 and look at the two extracts, Hardin and Singer.

Now as some may have gathered I am not a very nice person, I have no problem if people think that I wasn't a senior manager in an Investment Bank for nothing so, if people ignore me or say that's not a very nice thought so be it. I can't change my past, I can only try, in my small way, to change for the better.

My point, look at Hardin's perspective with the lifeboat, and compare to Singer. Now just about everybody if my memory serves me well went for Singer's utilitarianism. Me I'm Hardin.

When you have been reading about the financial crisis the governments and the taxpayer and the general population have gone for Singer's solution, to let them (the banks) be saved 'will prevent something bad from happening'. Only trouble is it won't, it will result in the repercussions from the Hardin approach. We are all so f....d, sorry there is no other word.

When you have to start paying extra taxes to pay my pension from the bank, when you pay extra taxes to keep the 'fat cats' going, when the hospitals are privitized, the social services cut back, the roads deteriorate, the basic infrastructure collapse, the schools cannot be maintained, the pay of the lower paid will keep falling, inflation will turn into deflation, and what is much worse, crime increases, and worse the poor in the developing world are dying in millions, fear and pestilence roam the planet, that is when you realise that Singer is wrong. The people on this planet will want to survive, there is no altruism, it is all about survival of the fittest, and you are letting yourself and your family down if you do not do everything in your power for your family to survive the coming catastrophe, the evil day of reckoning is approaching.

As for working family tax credits and support for the disabled, the poor, the underclass, well please...

I now try to think philosophically in all respects, not just for the nice cuddly bits. It is so hard sometimes but you have to try to be consistent.

Now me, I will be going so far to the left I will even surprise myself. I will survive, I have found my revolution to lead.

Oh, and don't forget the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan, now what is happening to 'our boys' now eh, where is Brown on the wars? Ben was right and he is even more right now! The system stinks. we are approaching the end game, only so many want to keep their heads in the sand.

Look at the numbers the US is baling out the banking system with $700 billion, I mean billion, now that is some lifeboat. Lehman Brothers wants $8 billion to Lehman Brothers going until the end of September!!! $8 billion.

So, please study your economics but don't forget your philosophy and politics, and as for cognitive psychology.

Well done John, any comments.


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Just so Finished

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So now we are to have the Home Secretary going after men who use prostitutes. She must have read my comments on your blog about Shakespeare and money and 'pimps and whores'. I wish that they would stop stealing my ideas.

As for Gordon, he does seem more confident. So confident that I think that he may actually win the next general election. There is however, a problem because if labour does somehow recover and win then I think that Gordon has to tell us how long he will serve for. Remember, our lovely boy Tony had to say that he would serve a full term. Now then Gordon, are you just so confident that you too will tell us that you will serve a full term, or will you resign, both the leadership and your seat so that you can do exactly the same as I'm a striaght sort of guy, Tony.

As for Prescott is he actually going to satnd at the next election or can we expect him to go the House of Lords.

They really are so finished.

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Letting the Country Down

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Did anybody else watch the Sunday Politics show on BBC at 12:00. Just how rude was John Prescott, how so condescending. Did you notice how he was putting his hand on the shoulder of Charles Clarke.

Now, when I used to work in a bar one of the first things I did when a situation was developing, was that I would  put my hand on the shoulder of the main trouble maker. Not to be pally but to feel what his neck muscles were like, so that if you got into a fight you knew if he was real threat, what you might be taking on. I wonder what John was doing.

The labour party has seriously lost the plot if they think that by not talking about a situation it will get better. Well sorry guys but the game is up. You've failed, totaly failed during your years in power to cahnge very much at all, there is still the unacceptable face of capitalism. A governmnet of national unity, stop fighting yourselves because next year will be dire.

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